Chaos

For all your Yu-Gi-Oh! discussion needs, come and have fun at the Chaos forums!


    Deck Stacking

    Share
    avatar
    Blaze

    Posts : 70
    Join date : 2010-04-20
    Location : In a cardboard box down some alleyway

    Deck Stacking

    Post  Blaze on Fri May 21, 2010 4:20 am

    ok disscus deck stacking... th ways you know how to do it and what to watch out for....
    2 ive found that are a little difficult to detect are the 8-7-6-5 shuffle and one that involves putting the 5 cards you want in positions 2,3,4,5 and 6 of your deck...BOTH TYPES INVOLVE 40 CARDS ONLY

    8-7-6-5 shuffle
    start by choosing the 5 cards that you want to draw as your opening hand
    then put 1 of those cards on top of your deck
    put 1 as the 4th card in the deck
    put 1 as the 28th card
    1 as the 29th card
    and 1 as the 35th card
    then pile shuffle with 8 cards... ***
    then pick up the piles in the order that you put them down in
    then pile shuffle again but this time with 7 piles
    then 6
    then 5
    still picking them up in the same order they were put down in
    then after you have picked up the 5 piles look at the top 5 cards of the deck. they should be the ones you picked out at the start....

    basically what you are looking for is if your opponent pile shuffles using 8 piles then 7, then 6 then 5....
    the way to mess up a hand if someone tries this way is to do the pile shuffle in piles of 5 and u need to do this 3 times and this should reset their hand to what it was b4 they shuffled

    the other way
    pick out your 5 cards again
    then lift the top card off of your deck
    place the 5 cards you want on top of your deck then replace the card that you lifted off
    then pile shuffle using 7 piles
    that needs to be done 3 times
    you can then pick up the top 5 cards of your deck and aslong as you have picked up the piles in the order you put them down in they should be the 5 cards you picked..

    if you notice your opponent doing this then just shuffle the deck like normal or cut pile shuffle it your self...

    the thing that makes it hard to notice if your opponent has stacked their deck this way is the fact that they look like they have shuffled their deck alot so some people tend not to be bothered shuffling casue the stacker has done it so much they they dont think its necessary... so always make sure to keep an eye out for someone doing either of these and always shuffle the opponents deck after them

    ***(for those of you not sure what im on about... put 8 cards down to start the piles then put the next 8 cards on top in the same order that you put the 1st lot down.. then do the same again with the next few cards and so on till the cards are all split between the piles)
    avatar
    Purple Ninja

    Posts : 193
    Join date : 2010-04-20
    Age : 27
    Location : West Sussex

    Re: Deck Stacking

    Post  Purple Ninja on Fri May 21, 2010 12:35 pm

    this is why i always cut the opponents deck, and also the same reason i let others cut my deck, there are plenty of ways to avoid this, and there are a lot of filthy stackers out there but the best way is to cut the deck in two different places and not obvious places, so not dead center or slightly off center because some people will account for that, i have seen it done
    avatar
    Marshmallon

    Posts : 144
    Join date : 2010-04-20
    Age : 25
    Location : Cliffe, Kent, England

    Re: Deck Stacking

    Post  Marshmallon on Sat May 22, 2010 12:58 pm

    Me and my opponent usually shuffle and cut each other's decks, so stacking is never a problem.
    avatar
    AozuAkazu

    Posts : 70
    Join date : 2010-04-21

    Re: Deck Stacking

    Post  AozuAkazu on Sat May 22, 2010 6:56 pm

    Nice little article.

    How people shuffle is another way you can cheat, or stop them from doing so.

    Despite popular beleif, shuffling is NOT a randomization of cards, like in games, but instead a systematic changing of order of cards.

    Lets look at the three more popular and most used ways of shuffling: Hindu shuffle, Table shuffle, and Side shuffle.

    Hindu shuffle is one of the more popular ways to shuffle, being the fastest and easiest.

    The player takes a "random" number of cards in a clump from the middle of the deck, and places it on top of the deck, so the previous top becomes the middle, and the bottom remains the same.

    This is done several times over and over, sometimes placing on the bottom, or taking the bottom, so the bottom becomes "randomized" as well.

    Where is cheating in here: Note that individual cards are not moved around, but instead clumps of cards, in "groups". Thus, each card is not moved, but instead groups of cards. A skilled shuffler can shuffle so that he opens with a certain number of cards he wants. Thats why we cut.

    Another thing to take note of is that Hindu shuffling allows for what I like to call "soft stacking".

    Soft stacking is a technique originally in Magic the Gathering, such to ensure you dont open with no lands, or all lands.

    What is done is the player, before the game starts, stacks his/her deck so there is an equal a distribution of card types(and in higher levels/more intense stacking, comboes and monster levels), throughout his or her deck, so that each hand will have a good number of monsters, traps, and spells.

    During my Singapore trip I taught a few people how to do this.

    Thus, when the deck is shuffled, there are some anomalies, but in the end, there will be an equal distribution of card types throughout the deck, regardless of how you hindu shuffled. However, which traps and which spells and which monster will be together cannot be determined.

    Even after the cut, this will almost be 100% retained, such that it doesnt matter how they cut, you will still open with good distribution, and thus less horribad hands.

    It takes a master to stack this way and still get exactly what you want.

    Thus, this is considered the least "cheating" of the three shuffle types.

    Then again, if you use this type of stacking, you should already know that is THE most unreliable stacking, more of a protective measure than getting what you want.


    In table shuffling, there are literally countless way to stack, regardless of how the opponent cuts.

    Because table shuffling is a series of systematic distribution of cards, even more than any other type of shuffling, it is what allows classic stacking, bringing exactly what you want, where you want it.

    So, table shuffling is beyond "soft cheating", and possibly actual cheating. The way to try to prevent this is to cut when you can.


    Side shuffling is when the player takes half of the deck, and puts the decks together sideways, such that the deck is shuffled in a similar way as bridging in normal poker.

    Of course, it looks much cooler than that always.

    But, if you really notice, the top card before the shuffle once becomes the second card, and the second from the top becomes the fourth, and so on.

    A good mathematician or a good program can give you an order of the cards and the number of perfect side shuffles to give you the desired opening hands.

    So, again, soft cheating is possible here as well.

    It should be noted that side shuffling is much more used to cheat during the cut than during shuffling.


    As we have shown, all three shuffling ways have techniques to stack what they want where they want, to an extent.

    However, the game gives us a cut, such to prevent this.

    After every time you shuffle(after doing things such as mystic tomato or foolish burial included), the opponent is entitled to cut your deck.

    Note that the tournament rulebook does not say "shuffle", but "cut". If they start hindu shuffling or side shuffling, it is possible they can cheat.

    The "only" legal cut there is is to take a stack off the top, and place it to the side, and the remaining cards to be placed on top. Once or twice is the most commonly accepted. Once with three stacks is also accepted.

    While most people dont really bitch if the opponent shuffles, cheaters do use this to their advantage.

    If you side shuffle, it is easy to catch a few, if not all, of the opponents cards, while appearing as just side shuffling(this is done by shuffling at an angle).

    When hindu shuffling, the information advantage is attained by looking at the card right above the stack you took out, before it falls onto the bottom stack, and the bottom card of the stack you pulled, before you put it on top.

    So?

    Information advantage is one of THE most powerful advantages you can have. By knowing what comboes a card can pull off, and other cards with synergy that are included, ones deck composition can be determined by almost three cards.

    This is knowing Murmillo can destroy only face up monsters, that Judgment Dragoon pays 1000LP and not 2000LP, but also that most Lightsworn decks have a certain composition, and run three honest.

    Also, your "hidden tech".

    If the opponent sees your deck before the game, your hidden tech isnt hidden anymore, almost destroying its purpose and the element of surprise.

    Also important with side shuffling the opponents deck is that you can effectively see what the opponent will draw into, and what their hand is, without the use of Trap Dustshoot.

    So? Always only take a single deck cut, and dont even pick up your opponents deck.

    If your opponent starts side shuffling, tell them that your sleeves are a bit damaged and youd like them intact for the rest of the tournament.

    If they start hindu shuffling, finish your cut and roll a few dice, roll your eyes, drum your fingers and make them feel uncomforatable. Tell them the tournament rules(only cut), then bulldozer over them during the game.
    avatar
    Blaze

    Posts : 70
    Join date : 2010-04-20
    Location : In a cardboard box down some alleyway

    Re: Deck Stacking

    Post  Blaze on Mon May 24, 2010 4:10 am

    thanks for the info... that really helps... i taught a few reliable people yesterday at a tournament i went to about the 2 ways i put just to show them and they were suprised at how much it looked like i had just shuffled the deck they only knew i was stacking cause i told them at the start... if it wasnt for that they wouldnt haved guessed...
    avatar
    Marshmallon

    Posts : 144
    Join date : 2010-04-20
    Age : 25
    Location : Cliffe, Kent, England

    Re: Deck Stacking

    Post  Marshmallon on Tue May 25, 2010 4:45 am

    Indeed, thankyou for the information man, it was quite a good read.

    Sponsored content

    Re: Deck Stacking

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:39 pm